War on terrorism

[-(aaK)- Nav]

A truth behind a facade...

Something rare isnt it, truth. Truth is intertwined with memories and history, serving as a reminder that something at some point irrevocably occured. Think back with me. To the birth of christianity, no, scrap that, move forward a little.

Think to the religeous crusades.

Christianity comes along on its shining white horse, claiming a religous war on non beleivers.

Now think to 2001. A fateful day in the sun for glorious NY. By the time the sun set on september the eleventh over 3000 people lay dead. For a religeous war. Look at us. We have fought a war for over a thousand years. Killed. Destroyed. Pillaged and raped eachother for an old, long dead conflict. I see images on the TV, coffins with flags drapped over them, and I ponder; what did these people honestly die for... democracy... freedom... money... look at us. Look at the "Glorious Dead". I did. And I asked myself for what or whom did they die for. I have yet too find an awnser. Religeon started a war a long time ago. What will be its drawing points? Money now? Power?

[-(aaK)- Nav]

For those who have trouble comprehending what I wrote, this is a sample.

www.maktab-al-jihad.com/videos/videos2.htm

Please be aware the site may contain some images you may find disturbing.

[-(aaK)- Neil Faz]

Totally agree man.....ALOT of ppl have lost there lives over these "HolyWars" where both sides claim god is on their side.

Are we supposed to believe that killing people in a war is any different than killing not in war....and how is that justified when they die??? Do they believe they still go to heaven or wherever it is they think u go to in the afterlife after murdering people, innocent or otherwise. Is war really an absolution of guilt for murder???

Personally with this whole Iraq business, i reckon its a good thing that Sadams reign of terror is over.... after all the stories of the killings and everything that went on. The way its been handled tho, and the reasons are what im against.

[-(aaK)- zZzTheAngel]

Why the hell does everyone like to blame wars on relgion!

Wars were fought long before christianity! They were fought for reasons such as land, money, power and freedom. Relgions have been the cause of wars before but they can hardly be blamed for everything.

Also dont just lump all the relgions together they are all different and have different ideals and beliefs on what is right and wrong. Also you need to understand that most relgions these days are totally non aggresive its only a few fantical crazy people that run around blowing themselves up in the name of there GOD.

Conflicts are always gonna arise due to the great range of nations or relgions of beliefs and ideals! People with differnces so often end up useing force to resolve them.
In situations like this all you can do is stand firm to your beliefs and defend them as well as you can. You should also remember that we are the victims we are the once fighting to defend ourselfs we arnt the aggersors in these conflicts people are trying to destroy our way off life and we cannot let them!

[-(aaK)- ICE]

[glow=blue,2,300]Name a war which has nothing to do with religoun[/glow]

[-(aaK)- Deltz]

What cracks me up is how you can have a war on terrorism in the first place.
If these people had nothing to pissed off about, they wouldn't be blowing each other up.

And religion and war go hand in hand. Or belief and war anyway.
But theres going to be no end to it for a few centuries anyway.
It will only end when theres a bigger problem to deal with, say the planet dying lol.

[-(aaK)- zZzTheAngel]

Iraqs invasion of Kuwait! That was pure and simple a grab for there oil feilds.

Also looking further back the 100 years war between England and france! 2 Christian countrys fought for 100 years over who was supposed to be king of france!

To easy Ice way to easy! The motivaters in these wars like so many were GREED!

[-(aaK)- zZzTheAngel]

-(aaK)- said:

And religion and war go hand in hand. Or belief and war anyway.

I am glad you said that! You dont have to be relgious to have strong beliefs that would drive you to fight!

[-(aaK)- ICE]

[glow=blue,2,300] Z u named 2 out of a thousand wars not a good percentage dude[/glow]

[-(aaK)- zZzTheAngel]

dude! I cant go listing thousands of wars!
but there are loads! to think of a few more i would say i american civil war, WW1, WW2 (yes we had the holocaust but the primary reason was that hitler wanted to take over the europe) .
Often wars are said to be relgious when really people are just useing relgion as an excuse for there own greed.
Lets think of some relgious wars we can say the crusades they were heavily relgious for sure. Then we have got the war on terrorism with muslim fanatics(i.e very small majority of muslims) doing crazy attacks of terrorism againsts western powers primarly the U.S.
Once again please try to remember that relgions are different and that over time they change. For example christianity has got a pretty bloody past but over time christianity has become very non aggressive trying to solve conflicts with words rather than wepons.

[Icarion]

Z, of course there are plenty of wars that are fought that have nothing to do with religion. But the easiest way to get people to fight and die is to claim that there is a place waiting in heaven for the soldiers. People are more willing to fight if their religion says they are the chosen people and this is their chosen land, than they are if they are all just people, and the land happens to be merely quite nice.

Religion certainly isnt the cause of all wars, but it facilitates and enables them, when greedy people use them to their advantage. You can (rightly) blame the greedy people for starting a war, but you have to admit that in many cases the greedy person would never have managed to make his people fight if their religious beliefs didnt compel them to. Hence, religion is often partly to blame.

[-(aaK)- zZzTheAngel]

I can see what you are saying about relgion being used to get people to fight. I agree that you can say relgion is party to blame BUT the problem with that almost everything will be in some way at responsible so you cant just pick on relgion.
For example the greedy mans LACK of relgious belief may be the cause of his willingness to abuse relgion to get what he wants.
The fact that we have democracy that lets us practice our relgions is also at fault if we had a super repressive society in which we had no personal freedoms we wouldnt have relgion or so the evil greedy man wouldnt be able to abuse relgion to cause wars.
IF we didnt have scientists we would have such powerful wepons so wars would be less costly. SO science is also partly to blame.
Some of that is a little extreme but i feel the point is valid. I feel relgion gets unfairly picked as its the only subject that there is real difference of opinion. Most people will agree that science is a good thing and that democracy is a good thing. BUT people that dont belive in god and arnt relgious dont consider to positive parts of relgion and just choose to blame it as its not a part of there life. BUT relgion does have plus sides just like science and just like democracy. Aside from the direct benifits it gives to belives relgion is the driving forces behind various charitys and preachers of peace(in general).
So i think people need to stop unfairly pointing out relgion as a bad thing. The problem is ultimatly with indivduals and its unfair to blame things like relgion or democracy etc.

[-(aaK)- Deltz]

Wizards First Rule - People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true.

Individuals are usually alright, but as soon as you get a group of people, stupidness spreads faster than fire in a forest.

I dont see stupidness dying out anytime soon.
There will always be wars and excuses for them. Belief in something being the biggest and easiest to use.

Just take this war on terror.
Terrorism has been around for a long long time.
Only now that there is nothing else to fight, no reason to nuke each other to hell.
All the money we spend on weapons has got to be used somewhere, so this is the perfect excuse.
It won't end until the coalition has done a world tour/occupation/just leave a few troops here.......

[Icarion]

-(aaK)- said:

I can see what you are saying about relgion being used to get people to fight. I agree that you can say relgion is party to blame BUT the problem with that almost everything will be in some way at responsible so you cant just pick on relgion.

Yoy're totally right, i hadnt thought of it that way. ITs just that the wars that do involve religion are rather incomprehensible to atheists, and so they stick in the mind as being so much worse and pointless than wars for land or oil. But you do have a point, people shouldnt blame religion outright for everything.

[Priest]

[glow=red,2,300]OK now we are in a topic that I am very comfortable in.

Wars as stated erlier have been around since before recorded history in one manner or another, certainly not in the scale that we know today.

as to not go too far back I'll stick to major "conflicts with in the last 200 years.

starting in the 1700's, there were numerous conflicts spring up between Spain, France and England, most due to trade (greed, wealth, colonies, other countries wealth inbound from other places)

the American Revolution, had nothing to to do with religion, the french and indian war same thing ( ok not going in order, drinking again bugger me down, lol) the rrench revolution, again not caused by or have anything due to religion. the War of 1812 ( I'm a yank what do you expect of me lmao) the American Civial war over a quater of a million lives lost on both sides. the Spaniosh American war, Russo Japaneese war WW1, Russian Revolution, WW2, Korea, Indo China (french) Viet-Nam (Anerica), same place the Faulkland crisis (England) Panama (U.S. again) Samolia, Bosnia ( I know I screwed that name), Gulf War 1)

Just curious how many ppl can tell me what triggered the First World War, and the Second?

thats just the big ones that made the news, however there were several in south and centrial americs that were due to drugs and gangsters mafia, and too many to count in Africa, most were due to land grabs, or the wish of 1 govt. to wipe out the ppl in another country (ethnic cleansing)


Now way earlier some one mentioned the crusades, now that was simpaly caused by the head of the church (in which during those times had a tendancy for corruption, greed)

The church told the kings and other nobility that " you need to free the holy lands.) now because the said and maybe thought they were doing that in the name of god, dosn't really mean that it was., follow?

Now I am a Christian I am not a zelot, I chose to believe for personal reasons. I also served in the U.S. Army, that does not go to say that I did so for religous reasons.

People can and will believe things that they are told if they are faced with the rantings of mad men, just look at the nazis. Hitler and his higherups told the german ppl all about how evil the jews were, that was not done for religous reasons to say but millions died for lies told by mad men, and people are still dieing from lies told by mad men, these are vailed in some cases by religous trapings but are not at the heart and soul fof what most religons preach.

sorry again for the rant, I'm doing this an awful lot lately, so sorry again guys.[/glow]